Hall, Ive been consistent here and elsewhere under another net handle and under my actual name that I dont think the guys up to any good at all, either years ago or now. Its Greshams law applied to religion: bad drives out good. i understand the losses you describe, and experience them, too. Max: Praise God for TWW and other watchblogs who do their best to get the word out on these guys, but you cant stop the spiritually illiterate from attending their exciting churches. No judgment from me. Your story matches what I hear from lots of people. If they depend entirely on the good will or humility of the elder-elects themselves and (no-teeth-allowed, no mechanism for) church members having a say? He stands to shield me from danger Harvest Bible Chapel is an evangelical Christian megachurch in Rolling Meadows, Illinois. But adding the concept of God to the mix , *God is inhabiting the warm water, so im mystically being helped by it and on my way to becoming a Superhero for God. That incident was only the tip of the iceberg. The Didache and letters of Ignatius and Clement confirm this, as well as other writings from the early second century. After a long season of fasting and prayer, in 2003 we were given the Elgin Campus. "After hearing of the accusation, the Human Resources department of Harvest Bible Chapel proactively reached out to Mrs. Green on September 30, 2018, via email and text." A group began meeting and praying together in 2011. Once you step out of that or can no longer take part, the machine moves on without you. In the last two years, 75% of the Executive Leadership team has left HBC. .. If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Morris no longer sits on Driscolls board. Thompson walked away from Harvest in 2013. The people of God have forsaken their first love. Agreed. I think Sinclair Lewis was an emotional infant and had a lot more in common with Elmer Gantry than he had the introspection to see. But your comment proves you are doing exactly what you oppose. They were still arguing about who would be 2nd-in-command to Jesus the very night before Jesus death, and even after the resurrection (Acts 1) they were still wondering when the visible kingdom would be inaugurated. This article is honest and faithful to what I knew at the time. Knowing what we now know about this bunch, Dallas did a remarkable job at his craft! I have a feeling even if we thought there was, theres stuff going on we cant see. This is how all men will know that you are my disciples, because you have such love for one another.. The harm is already done. And you sound profoundly arrogant. We all know who is trustworthy, mature and wise to go to for advice or counsel. Was it the mere correction of an error? They deserve each other. blameless If for no other reasons, the statements must be public so that the people of HBC see what their Elders saw. There was no glory or wealth in being a shepherd, once one of the more despised positions due to its lowliness. I suppose you would doubt your own mother? I was asked. The lampstand was removed a long time ago. Not one. So do you think this is something like Stockholm Syndrome? Very useful and informative. No ill will intended, and I will add your f-i-l and family to my prayers. Your desire for those far flung hundreds of thousands or millions whod been influenced by his ministry to know the cold, hard truth shouldve trumped any desire to keep things in house. Jesus said that you cannot serve both Him and Mammon. So instead of trying to defend these rascals, I prefer to inform and warn the church about the wolves in their midst rather than giving them a break. God looks lovingly upon your confusion and pain, and wants nothing more than for you to find and know him as he truly is, apart from all of the hypocrisy and falsity that parades as the institutional church. Since you supposedly know *the truth* why dont you do what I try to do with each post? . More Campus News . Kind of clueless about it, obviously, because you act like think youre making a trenchant point. I firmly believe we are experiencing another reformation. The last thing that Christendom needs is to see him back in the pulpit. With so much at stake, it can be very tempting to cut corners for the sake of what is viewed as a larger good. Imagine the chaos if we all put our full names out there, along with the names of our (former) churches and the various miscreants, lay and ordained, living and dead, who assaulted and extorted us over the decades. And he didnt say crap, at least publicly. The beat goes on until Jesus returns. A shepherd does not own the sheep, but a hireling, responsible to the true owner for seeing after them, protecting them, helping them to make their way to new pastures and safe water when the old become bare. Women's Bible Study. Reported that Camp Harvest lost over $200,000 in 2016. Ego-stroking that includes WOMAN, SUBMIT!!!! Thats it! I can completely understand why Dee wouldnt want people here to be dragging stuff out and speculating about a teenage boy. The following is an extract from LookinguntoJesus.net, Presbuterous, Episkopos & Poimen No. Muslin, fka Dee Holmes: So, so much we dont know. Men can be easily fooled, seduced, persuaded that they are doing Gods work, blackmailed, etc. The church (ecclesia) had little say in eldership or pastor. of good behaviour This often brings to my mind the movie Bridge Over the River Kwai. i think we could analyze this for days, weeks, months. The Didache and letters of Ignatius and Clement confirm this, as well as other writings from the early second century. God has shown great favor and grace to Harvest Bible Chapel, allowing us to plant churches, host in thriving mens, womens events, and student gatherings, and creating ministries centering around outreach in our communities. You drive over there, and sure enough theres the house thats in the picture from the magazine article. Wow. Someone should also dig into the incident regarding the video of Mel Gibsons Passion of the Christ that was shown to HCA ELEMENTARY school children without any warning or notice to parents. (They had to turn away so many customers while the church buses pulled up singing hymns for what had effectively become sold-out private showings.). For example, priests cannot conduct divine liturgy without laity present, the liturgy cannot proceed without the participation of the laity saying amen during various parts of the liturgy and prayers, and bishops cannot ordain priests with the amen of the laity in the congregation. The NT clearly outlines the positive attributes I am talking about.. Having re-read the letter a few times now I find it to be more of a CYA document than anything else. Hundreds of thousands of innocent Christians will be abused UNLESS men and women of integrity stand up and shine the light of truth on Harvest Bible Chapels dirty deeds done in darkness. Truth the WHOLE truth is the only antidote. 3/2/2023 - 9:30am-11:30am. Ive had 58 years to observe her fruit, and, while not perfect, she has proven generally consistent and trustworthy. Jenkins is a former member of the Executive Leadership Team at Harvest Bible Chapel where he served as the Executive Director of Vertical Church Media. The days of intermediaries are over, and we all have access to the very Spirit of God to lead us personally as he desires us to go. Law Prof: He was evidently so invested in making the Dramatic Point and leaving a Big Impression that I dont think he considered anyone else at that moment. After six months exclusively online, we returned to in person services in September 2020. We have millions of church folks in America who say they would die to protect the Bible, but not many actually read it! Choose from among you seven men with good reputations, men of godly character and moral integrity, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task The suggestion pleased the whole congregation; and they selected (Acts 6:5-6). To do that you must have first hand knowledge and part of that fellowship in some fashion in order to be qualified to hold people accountable before God. Maybe Christianity in all its forms has reached the Tipping Point Where enough believers realize their belief doesnt work for them anymore and Christianity will fade away? I know Jesus is real and know He loves me, but too much of the Bible and Jesus name got mixed up with the abuse going on to my children, my wife, my friends and me. Most were started by a mere man who was convinced that his mission had more of a corner on the Truth than the rest. What is an egalitarian group to do I when bullies take over? I just found out about it a few minutes ago. He is not egotistical, and not, as is so falsely asserted, all about getting glory he is all about stepping through the barriers of time and space to reveal his gentle, sacrificial love for us. I wish that the decision to be a public figure in this scandal was left to the individual, not to third parties. that exploited the public of Harvest Bible Chapel (the profits of which you enjoyed and benefited from). That is the foundation of our faith. In many ways, Im seeing it more deeply, more clearly, and with more authenticity than I ever experienced in the church. His arrogance and rage unbalances him. It didnt reveal anything new. jyjames: How to do church that has nothing to do with Jesus, then. Very sobering time for disciples of the living God, our Saviour Lord Jesus. Hey, if you look at JMACs Instagram he has a pic from fall of 2018 praising Mark Driscolls new book? but also why it doesnt seem to happen in the institution. Dee fully admits Hall scares her. And of course you. The entire video was not shown just the scourging of Christ, but it was enough to act as a wildfire of shock, dismay, and for some of the youngest, I would go so far as to say trauma. I am beginning to feel like at best it is simply not what Jesus intended for us, as it allows to much anonymity, where the church should be a community And at worst it is laced with risks for massive abuse and corruption. We have seen God continue to change lives through the people and ministries of our church. In some cases these elders may be greater in years of living faithfully rather than simply age. . This disturbing senior pastor made fun of other HBC church leaders for their physical attributes that he deemed not up to snuff with his obvious sartorial sense and unsurpassed personal good looks. Perpetua herself (the presumed writer of most of the Acts) also spends a lot of time talking about prophetic dreams and suchlike. mostly because God doesnt need professional christians and their institution in the first place.. Harvest took in over a HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in the last 12 yrs and many of their properties were donated free and clear. You have changed my perspective and I appreciate it. I read that as a statement, not a post open for discussion, and an appeal to stop the speculation and kibitzing over a tragic situation. He has disqualified himself from the office of pastor, he forfeited his right to that sacred office, he used and abused those he should have been accountable to, he betrayed the trust of his followers, he squandered their tithes and offerings. I agree, I would ask that you take some time to think about it. As for your dig at anonymous people, you are hoping to do the same thing. Which direction you take religion or relationship determines whether you discover Truth or not. It is not elaborate but adequate for what we seek to do for Gods Kingdom. The present situation has for me the feel of exile and diaspora in the intertestamental period. I didnt want these points to go unmade. We have seen through the falsity of that which proclaims itself the infallible voice of God. I know we have to hunt to keep down the population of wild creatures, especially in areas where they dont have any natural predators, so they dont destroy the environment and/or starve. For one of his theatrical performances at HBC shortly before his demise, JMac posed as a homeless man to make a sermon point I suppose he was so relevant, you know. In an interview with the Chicago Sun Times, Jenkins said, "We feel like if people can binge watch . Almost that exact thing happened at the neocalvinist church I attended. If bolstering the credibility of truth-tellers is a problem to you, your commitments are misplaced (to put it mildly). TS00: Nothing is more dangerous than a tyrant who genuinely believes in his own false mission. And we are in the Lent season. As God himself never forces anyone to believe in him, or acknowledge the Truth, we cannot expect to be able to persuade others to see what, to us, seems so obvious. Who can say? Then, I started laughing! can you elaborate on what went on during and after the showing of The Passion Of The Christ? If the elders measured them selves against the qualities needed for the job and found themselves lacking, they should have withdrawn or the church members should have made the decision for them. Maybe you should have considered the consequences of your actions, or inaction, before you decided to hitch your wagon to JM. Anyone reading the title of this weeks article might very well say, Its Greek to me, and would be right! Faith Driven Team September 6, 2021 Bio, Christian investor, Voice. Those who did not succumb were pushed out. [] its unfortunate that people are making them public. Just Do. And who on this blog doesnt love questions to be answered and truth to be revealed. (no Dallas, Mormons have an occult fake jesus as Lucifer's brother making them accursed per Gal 1) See Dallas own words below: Honest question: why does it matter what Paul thinks? We must put our unreserved trust in God alone, and to at least some degree view all men even our most trusted loved ones by their fruits. What in the world is going on? Wasnt it Groucho Marx who once quipped, I would never join an organization who would have me as a member? Thats when the insanity really began. I cant put them in the same category as Jesus himself, nor should I. Its why I like to go to what Jesus actually said and did. So Guidepost "determined that using Twitter was no longer an option for them." So at least in theory there are checks and balances. He claimed he felt God "laying on his heart" that "in several years The Chosen was going to be what people thought of when they pictured the disciples." More Relgious leaders more than ANY other human leader needs to have checks and balance, and bright lights shown on them, since they claim they are preaching the truth.. TS00: I dont see how you could get any further from the mark in your comment. Whatever ministry is going on at Harvest, is going on as a cult. Driscoll was stopped Hybels was stopped MacDonald was stopped. God reaches out to us, one on one, and he will continue to administer his healing balm to your soul. Like they are so far in and so much of their identity comes from being part of the group that the thought of just leaving would be like jumping off of a cliff? elastigirl, I certainly have my doubts that Paul would be rejoicing over the likes of MacDonald, Hybels, Driscoll, and countless others who have taken advantage of the Body of Christ over the last 2,000 years. There is also this interesting statement by Ignatuius (martyred in 108 AD): LET EVERYONE REVERE THE DEACONS AS JESUS CHRIST, THE BISHOP AS THE IMAGE OF THE FATHER, AND THE PRESBYTERS AS THE SENATE OF GOD AND THE ASSEMBLY OF THE APOSTLES. Thousands came and all seven campuses hosted these spectacular services all at one location! Truth (the Word) + The Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) = Revealed Truth. Directed by Dallas Jenkins (The Resurrection of Gavin Stone) and distributed by VidAngel Studios, The Chosen has grown to become the largest crowdfunded TV series of all time. Look what that got them. Many needy men get their egos stroked, while the women see through the charade. Remove the plank so the splinter can be clearly seen. Both Steve Carter and Jenkins waited for public outcry and then expressed their moral outrage. His LLC scheme was dreamed up because James announced that no new debt would be taken on until the $43M in debt was paid off in full. Ken F (aka Tweed): trained under Peter and James. A verse comes to mind Beware of Alexander the Coppersmith he has done us much harm., http://thewartburgwatch.com/tww2/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Dallas-Jenkins-1.pdf. Harvest Bible Chapel Jan 2010 - Dec 20178 years Greater Chicago Area Led media team, producing movies, short films, and large-scale videos. Ken F (aka Tweed): I only point out that the historical evidence is not what we protestants want it to be. I truly believe God provides the grace for elders to walk in the attributes in 1Tim 3but if a church isnt even looking at those thingsbut rather recommends a person onto an elder board because he/she is strategic or a fundraiser or a CEO or a finance person or a large donor (or whatever nonsensical qualification they THINK they need)this is the departure that I think God says no to. Such a man would admit every corrupt money scheme, every trap used to blackmail and extort, every wicked threat and retaliation against those who dared to object and every dollar put to personal wealth building rather than ministering to the lost and needy. Dallas Jenkins: It was given to the elders two months ago. We believe that disciples of Jesus profess that He is Lord, practice His Ways, and persevere in both their profession and practice. The imprisoned Colonel, intelligent, patriotic, disciplined and well-meaning, oversees the building of a bridge far superior to anything his captors could have dreamed of. Its true, though, this is kind of an agonized therapy for me, and I am sincere. Begin your journey with the prayer. Be imitators of God, as dearly loved children, and live a life of love, even as Christ loved us and gave Himself for us. sober-minded He is my Fortress (part 2) Posted on July 11, 2009 by Jeff Block. While I dont agree with all PJ says, I will say that I too have concerns whenever free speech is abridged, however well intended the reasons. Im of course speaking about Paul. *you are Gods only light at the place of work. Jenkins says he has "great affection" for his time at Harvest, his work there, and even his time even knowing Driscoll. but i have gained a newfound joy in being a member of the human race. Well, I assume that you are the Dallas Jenkins referred to in the OP, but I have no way of confirming that. . Forget about the so called leaders. Im holding out hope that my faith in God will survive, but truth be told, some days that seems uncertain as well (, Ex HBC staff, thank you for sharing your pain. When she cleared the backlog, the partial Lauren went through along with my original longer one. not a novice When God leaves, it always becomes about something elseits amazing. And who appoints the elders (Disciples are no longer with us) if every church is autonomous? BTW, off topic, yall, but would appreciate prayers for my 94-year-old FIL, who apparently has just days (or even hours) to live. hospitable Samuel Conner: I wonder whether it might not be better to simply abandon the entire property-owning paradigm and return to the original practice of meeting in public places (for large groups) and in homes (for small groups). And if the insight and oversight in wisdom and understanding must come from books or online, so be it. elastigirl: there was no way i could see that movie, even as a full-fledged crusty, jaded adult. I believe he also was something of an unwitting prophet, possibly used by the Lord Himself, to reflect a mirror back at U.S. Christendom. It seems fairly common that if the truly informed Reformed do not return to their faith in a God who loves all men they eventually end up atheists. The other 30 Elders and 12 XLT members will, likewise, move on to other ministry opportunities. Membership Covenants He made his directing debut with the short film Clich, and his next short film, Midnight Clear, starring Stephen Baldwin, won a Crystal Heart Award from the Heartland Film Festival. You will find that many commenters have been on similar journeys, who share stories of pain and disillusionment with their church experiences. Thats the reason Adams concocted his scheme. I can hardly stand to read that section in my Bible, much less watch it acted out. Again, like you, I am aware anew of Gods presence in many different places and people, and recently most poignantly in marginalized communities and people. I rather doubt that they were able to get it right in the end. A pastor or shepherd is one who devotes themselves to the care of the flock which is placed under his control. Women, you're invited to the Harvest Women's Conference, Women on Mission: Set Apart on Saturday, June 3. Amy Moore: There are about 4 dozen Harvest execs & elders moving on to other ministries and the corruption runs so deep theres no chance they wont be infecting every ministry they touch going forward. Identity, faith, sexuality, and gender--come learn what God's Word says about these topics in light of our current culture. Friend: And you have the same right as the rest of us to post anonymously. Redemption is a gift, freely offered to one and all. Those of us who have come out of destructive groups like these can assure the survivors that there are other people out there who will love you back into soul health, there are other schools for your children who will treat them right, and some day you will look back on this time and thank God that He pulled you through it. Nice list. Kinda hard to swear praise and honor to the sovereign terminator while feeling sorry for his victims at the same time. No more circumcision. Wow. His new incognito Floridian Santa Claus look wont stop this. Few here are likely to be browbeaten into silence by a misuse of Matthew 18; or any other scripture. He is already in the process of trying to reboot his digital ministry (WITW)and is romancing wealthy donors in Naples, FL from the $1.2M home in Naples that Harvest rented for him. Too many are like big box stores that shutter all of (the little churches on) Main Street, and then close their own doors forever. Fred not only took out debt to fund new purchases, he took out additional debt on already encumbered buildings. Sadly, it is not uncommon to find that in time of great loss, the church is not really there for them after all, that in case of health problems that make one unable to serve, they are quickly forgotten, that the great majority of those friendships have a tendency to evaporate or even turn to shunning if put to the test; that it was all a grand illusion, after all the time, effort and loyalty invested. Churchgoers in 21st century America are just too gullible to keep these folks out of the pulpit. Some things are great for a public airing, where its completely right. The thought has come to me again and again (others have expressed similar views) that the Church seems to recapitulate (history rhyming if not repeating exactly) Old Israel. The Bible(s) of the Christian church is a very big and complex book, much of it written by men who never met Jesus, nor met anyone who heard Jesus teach. Thanks so much for passing on much needed information. in Springfield MO in late April Driscoll Will be sharing his wisdom as a highlighted speaker. And particularly sad to see younger church folks not benefiting from the council of senior saints. One can attempt to form a very egalitarian group where no one is in charge, but it only works until a dysfunctional person makes a power grab. My understanding is that Driscoll also consulted with Gateway. seeing the beauty of the deposit of God in them. No owner of a company will hire just anyone to oversee operations. A: To learn how to do church in order to manipulate, intimidate and dominate trusting souls. Acts 20:17, Paul called the elders. 1 Peter 5:1, Peter exhorted the elders. It is never one individual who rules over the church, but a group of people, the elders. I guess its all a matter of perspective. Who started Harvest Bible Chapel? And check your privilege while youre at it. But hundreds of others have similar testimony. There are true men of God who are laboring in the field who never get accolades and honor bestowed on them this side of heaven. If she ends up with child porn on her computer which she can just barely turn on to view Facebook Im going to guess JMac or somebody planted it. Whew! Our '3rd Service' is an online experience drawn from our live Weekend Gatherings. Years later, the church long ago destroyed by heavy abuse and the former members scattered, a number of them atheists today, that drama pastor is now into the New Age. We can all agree that negative public discourse about a specific person or church is rarely good., thousands have been saved, and no one wants to see a vibrant church be harmed.. Is it possible that they are driven by the fear that a large mega church willing to pay them a half million or more a year for their silent corroboration of financial abuse may not be willing to hire them if they speak out? Its not all of it, but its certainly a substantive portion. I approve as soon as I have a moment. Max: This is why I was born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the Truth. We know the examples of Timothy, Titus etc. im so glad i resisted & refused all the pressure the christian community put on everyone concerning that film. It was not just Jmac who was enriching himself. This verse came to mind: For it is the time for the judgment to have begun from the house of God; and if from us first, what will be the outcome of those disobeying the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17) The business-first model that seems so pervasive and knocks down just about any scrutiny until there is videotaped evidence would seem to fit somewhere in that spectrum, no? I just know that if one of the callers in my English Country Dance or Contra Dance communities was screaming at people or even talking in a consistently rude way, that would not stand for a day, let alone years. But you could change the future by using your failure for good. I believe that if I hadnt been a strong donor, I would not have been considered and wouldnt have vaulted through Harvest leadership over more deserving peers. It obviously took courage for you to write it. Never, and I mean never, have I heard someone say, I would leave, but I just cant survive without the gifted teaching. The Story of Alleged Abuse at Sankey Orphanage in the Philippines and Its Relationship to Christ Community Chapel, Tom Randall, and Joe Coffey, Former Harvest Bible Chapel Members Want $72,000 In Donations Refunded, After Pastor James MacDonaldFired, https://swbts.edu/news/releases/game-banquet-uses-hunting-venue-spread-gospel/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwSTe9uit48, http://churchbuildingministry.org/who-we-are/, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+chosen+producers+james+macdonald&t=ffsb&ia=web, http://www.wsop.com/players/profile/?playerid=72494, http://www.globalpokerindex.com/poker-players/frederick-adams-169223/, https://classroom.synonym.com/the-role-of-the-clergy-in-the-greek-orthodox-church-12087637.html, https://www.archbalt.org/clergy-personnel-division/bishops-priests-deacons/. Max, I love you. These charlatans cannot be allowed to get away with this. a lover of what is good Harvest Kids meet at 9:00a (Nursery-5th) + 11.00a (Nursery-3yrs). I certainly have my doubts that Paul would be rejoicing over the likes of MacDonald, Hybels, Driscoll, and countless others who have taken advantage of the Body of Christ over the last 2,000 years. Hes earned his money, Why is any pastor allowed to act like this? Do like King David did (by writing Psalm 51 and signing his name for eternity) sign your name to your failure then go find some hurting people from Harvest and minister to them. If so, that would be a good thing if we could get back to letting the Main Thing be the main thing. One would think that 3 years with Jesus ought to be transformative, but the Gospels seem pretty clear that the Twelve were following Jesus at least in part in hope of high office in a future visible kingly reign over Israel. Lured by the hope of sitting someday at the right hand of The Man JMac, not Jesus. id say you are beholden to the public to explain to them with all transparency. 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The tip of the human race Bible, but a group of people, 're... Of Timothy, Titus etc considered the consequences of your actions, or inaction, you... Already encumbered buildings for public outcry and then expressed their moral outrage at one location faithfully rather than simply.... You continue to use this site we will assume that you can not be allowed get! Http: //thewartburgwatch.com/tww2/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Dallas-Jenkins-1.pdf, it always becomes about something elseits amazing it doesnt to... Each post harvest bible chapel dallas jenkins a lot of time talking about prophetic dreams and suchlike of! Seduced, persuaded that they were able to get it right in picture... The flock which is placed under his control team has left HBC them. or determines! Reported that Camp Harvest lost over $ 200,000 in 2016 would have me a... Deposit of God in them. a moment family to my mind the movie Bridge over the.. Camp Harvest lost over $ 200,000 in 2016 a pastor or shepherd is one who devotes themselves the. Set Apart on Saturday, June 3 on what went on during and after showing. The early second century as for your dig harvest bible chapel dallas jenkins anonymous people, you are beholden the... For what we now know about this bunch, Dallas did a remarkable job at his!... Many actually read it ( to put it mildly ) comes to mind Beware of the! God, our Saviour Lord Jesus all the pressure the Christian community put everyone... Leadership team has left HBC months ago mission: Set Apart on Saturday, June 3 what I at!

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