Its essentially a 9mm magnum. 100% agree. I am a Brit who has lived in the US for fourty years now. I have used both and much prefer the 9mm to a .45 ACP. choot em. My picks for rifles were 7.62 x 39 and 7.62 x 51. My non-silenced weapons are 9mm my silenced weapons are .45. .45 S&W Shield for concealed and home defense and Glock 17 for shtf all bases covered. Later on in life I started to practice shooting again and worked with many different calibers. The real reason why the FBI switched from 40 to 9mm is the same reason they switched for 10mm to 40, most cant handle the recoil and they dont pass the required score in the firing tests, same for civilians they cant handle the recoil, they groups are horrible then blame the caliber instead stop eating bacon and improve they fitness condition. I finally settled on the .380acp for awhile because the size of the handguns matched my older 22lr Handgun. I really admire the professional comments that was written. Better find out. Few gun owners will say that there is too much muzzle velocity, but there is one potential disadvantage: more recoil. Youtube - Track the views of embedded videos. Here it is for those of us who have long since forgotten: KE = 0.5 m v2 where m = mass of object v = speed of object A picture is worth a 1,000 wordsnewself-defense 9mm ammo opens up to create some nasty possible wound channels to stop attackers in their tracks. Today's 45s aren't that slow. Lets take a look at the selling points of each one to help you decide. God bless. Across the spectrum, the .45 had no discernible or predictable muzzle velocity reading between barrel lengths with the shortest length often outpacing the longer ones. Thats why its more popular in police, military, and civilian use. As for the tool, I like the Springfield XD series. For mid-sized pistols I like .40 S&W which tends to cut the difference in capacity, ammunition cost, projectile mass, and muzzle velocity between 9mm and .45 pretty nicely. I pushed a wire into the hole to see how far it penetrated. The same principle applies to bullets. Clumsy, deaf and with tunnel vision. Placement regardless the expansion will do the job. I've taken black bear with both the 44 mag. I've never been in a gunfight, but I have been terrified out of my mind once, many years ago, when someone did come after me with a gun, and I couldn't get my knees to stop shaking. Every single bullet, whether its a full-metal jacket, hollow point, or soft nose, can be measured in muzzle velocity. 40 S&W and 45 ACP usually make Major. Shoot them both at the same velocity at a block of gelatin. For self defense close or far away. I had been on the fence regarding 9mm and .45ACP for a long time, then I purchased a couple of different 9mm semi-autos for carry over a few years, with .380 for backup. I have both and like them both. They're comparable. I bench load and like both cartridges, but I'll gladly carry any caliber firearm for defense as long as it is reliable, concealable and comfortable. "Facts" for silly children, maybe. And that's why an old lady clings to her old 1911 :). https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/the-statistically-perfect-gunfight/ And yes,if you arent skilled with a hand gun,dont carry until you are. Retract head from tuchus. Youll do well to pick heavier bullet weights that convey a subsonic muzzle velocity. While I do agree with your statements about the improvements in ammo, I must disagree Glocks are the most widely used, and are certainly good enough for almost all applications. If you want to go further or apply wind resistnece then use custom seetings with our ballistic calculator. Who are we? Firing 12 rounds my 9 mm wouldn't penetrate it or do catastrophic damage to it. But I know you won't understand. Yonder You need fewer rounds to do the job so you dont get excessive force charge , so that rules out the capacity as being a decision factor in the debate . Along with comments as well! This debate of 9 versus 45 just comes down to personal choice with today's ammo. The debate over the 9mm and .45 ACP is one of the most heated conversations in the firearms community. I like that revolvers come in 9mm now (or more), and they sure seem more reliable and easy to use. If new powders and more advanced bullet designs used helped make the 9mm better then would not the new powders and more advanced bullet designs also then put every other caliber a step up also? Also keep in mind that the study, and their recommendation, was based off of the assumption that they were going to be equipping thousands of people with the new weapons. 9mm, 40, or 45acp Can't make my mind up and like them all. 4. Later when they started coming out with pocket 9mm handguns I started to practice with those. Not saying I could do any better but figured it would be closer to 50%. The Glock is my every day carry. The hydrostatic shock of a .45 is inherently greater than a 9mm. the CarryGun's G2 bullet weighs 135 grains so that it will reach optimal velocity out . No matter how much you love than one 9mm you saved up for. Thanks. A lie of omission or a good-natured lie is still misinforming people. New powders and more advanced bullet designs used only work for the 9mm not 45 acp or 40 S&W? A 40 will fire a lighter bullet at higher muzzle velocity and considerably more pressure. Penetration and energy, and the physical properties that result in them (velocity, weight, diameter, etc), are the most important features. Try a .357 magnum . I also agree about freezing and adrenaline and tunnel vision and all that. This added pressure makes felt recoil from the 40 considerably snappier and more difficult to control. Every time. I do take into consideration penetration behind what I am aiming at with the 9mm because of over penetration, but you must ALWAYS be aware of what is behind the perp. When a bullet it traveling at a faster rate, it will not drop as quickly. But that's all a moot point. They need a lot more practice. Speed is an important factor for ballistic performance, impacting accuracy, trajectory, energy, and penetration. I would think soldiers in fire fights face similar circumstances, except with more opponents who may also have body armor, which would favor the 9mm further, since it pierces armor better. 9mm: having more range, muzzle velocity, more accuracy(depending on the professionalism of the shooter), less recoil, a smaller cal(meaning the gun will have more capacity) and more penetration(Depending on the grain). I would like to add that the FBI test comparisons that are referred to are only half the test. Do the math. . gear. The marines and FBI went to the 9 so women could qualify because only 1 in 10 can with a 45. though they cant come out and say so. My wife was a Harville from Alabama. Drop the mic While there are a number of compact .45 ACP models on the market, as a general rule, you can expect the 9mm to be more comfortable to carry in a holster. Enough to spawn sayings youll see all over forums (and t-shirts). Very interesting test. The penetration myth is a myth. From Firearm Wiki: The Internet Gun Encyclopedia, Velocity by Barrel Length of Various Calibers, Firearms Chambered in 9mm (Palmetto State Armory), https://firearmwiki.com/index.php?title=9mm_Velocity_by_Barrel_Length&oldid=1702, About Firearm Wiki: The Internet Gun Encyclopedia. I carry a high capacity compact 9mm (P365XL with the magguts 14+1 mags) or a 357 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjW3I71693mAhVGZM0KHXzxCngQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw10DVrk4SswQsgAgCh-Cf28 While not typically considered a hunting round by any means, the 9mm is effective for varmints and even deer hunting with a suitable bullet. Another reason for the swap, one the author forgot to mention was that, for the most part, NATO armed forces had already moved to the 9mm. lb Muzzle Velocity ft/sec. back in 1971, couple years ago! Stop trying to justify taking effective weapons away for less effective ones. Youll hear a lot of people say that the .45 is better because it shoots a bigger caliber bullet, or that the 9mm is better because of its capacity. As for the difference between 9 mm and 45 does not even compare thats why when you see police having to fire many shots to take down a criminal when 1 shot from a 45 will take him off his feet I got rid of my .45 Auto carbine because I found it less effective beyond about 60 yards. They aren't like 22lr or up in power like 44mag. Youre welcome. Based on the data above, it appears that almost all loads tested got their greatest percentage increase in velocity up until about a 7" barrel length. The law enforcement and military need that exact type of round and the 9mm is the perfect gun for those situations. I love both rounds, but after seeing so many shootouts on liveleak, I have come to the conclusion that you are probably going to miss more than you think so have more rounds than you think you need. If I am passing through Welfareville and Methport on my way to the Promised Land, My TP 9 with 5 extra loaded 17 round magazines of 115 grain JHP will be with me. How can the 9mm "have the same wound tracks as a .45 ACP" when the .45 expands to an inch diameter? I don't believe that MEN can Kill the SOUL.It's GOD BREATHED Genesis 2:7. and since the "SOUL" is "GOD-BREATHED", then The SOUL is "IMMORTAL".! But really, the majority of gun deaths are either suicide or ignorance about how to properly operate the firearm , not malicious intent ! I shoot 240 consistently with my 40 and would never carry a 9 unless I had to. 1 shot equals. Thanks for the article, and for the mature comments. And then some more. I own both calibers with two semi autos chambered for each. What-ever you choose.get practice. In certain situations, such as home defense in the middle of the night, the slightly higher capacity of the 9mm handgun may make it a preferred weapon. As mentioned by another person's comment above, any more than a couple of rounds down range may escalate the possibility of your prosecution, (Unless you are against multiple attackers.). I'd rather have a .22 short revo than just my index finger. Plus, I think the just plain weight of the 45 carries more "oomph". PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT & decision making! "The Judge". ERIC! Who knows , maybe well all be carrying 5.7x28 in 20 years. Now I see these new cops high fiving each other for passing. Today, modern incarnations of his cartridge significantly exceed that limit. The 9mm also has a higher muzzle velocity than the .45 ACP because of its lighter bullets. Energy is a square of velocity. Muzzle velocity is generally stated in feet per second, or fps. However, many European brands are listed in meters per second, which is abbreviated as either mps or m/s. For consistency, well use fps for the rest of this article like the red-blooded Americans we happen to be! No speed loaders, just six more rounds in the bullet loops on the holster. Shot placement will be your main concern with any bear. Accuracy is affected by the stress of being shot at, the need to establish effective cover, high respiratory rate from the exertion required to get to that cover, moving (and sometimes multiple) targets and other factors. Typical 9mm muzzle velocity can range from 950 fps to over 1,500 fps depending on the grain and load of the round. The one thing I never see mentioned about the .45 acp is that because it's a slower round and over penetration issues drop dramatically it, FMJ is still a very good SD/HD ammo. I agree with what the majority of old veterans say. Its not about practice - its all about the situation theyre in. Even the FBI has phased out the .40 S&W in favor of the 9mm. The Federal 115-grain 9mm ammo has a muzzle velocity of 1,180 fps, while the larger bullet is propelled at 1,000 fps. 12 ga shotgun ask anyone outfitter in Alaska what they carry you can buy a Shockwave and have more power then any pistol. .308. Also avg distance of civilian gunfights are extremely close quarters. Where I grew up an old timer who was still an incredibly good shot was asked which he would rather be holding in a gunfight. . "Subsonic for a bullet is slow"Again, your limited knowledge is apparent here. Getting back to the point the 9mm gives less recoil and many cops nowadays cant shoot for shit. More misinformation about the 9mm vs 45. Equipped with a suppressor, they make ideal home defense weapons and they are less likely to over-penetrate. This negates the added magazine capacity advantage of the 9mm. Even if your bullet is only traveling an inch, it will lose velocity, as air drag is steadily wearing down momentum. Then rinse and repeat as needed. Kinetic energy. This is repeated in Winchester's Power Max cartridges. The _ga cookie, installed by Google Analytics, calculates visitor, session and campaign data and also keeps track of site usage for the site's analytics report. It's possible the man in the 80's wasn't being hit by modern 9mm expanding hollow-point defensive ammo. A .357 magnum round can have similar effects. some info is well hidden for obvious reasons. We'll send you the latest guides and training tips geared Watch key board warriors loose their mind. "Subsonic is slow for a bullet" lol. The 45 makes bigger hole while 357 punches deeper. I'd love to find a 10mm SubSonic round in the 250gr range, my son has a Kriss Vector with a SilencerCo can. That is why some like the 9mm short or .380. The G30 is my EDC, the G36 is in my car's glove compartment. Like the logo of a Very Familiar training range: First to mention, we are limited to FMJ rounds, no HP no JHP, just plain FMJ. All the comments are great. The LaserLyte is bore set low to compensate up to 300 yds. It is up to you to determine the compatibility of any ammo with your particular pistols. You had to buy your own oversized grips. Hello. Be armed and have the gun where you can access it (LOADED) quickly. 540 ft lb was the highest recorded muzzle energy for the 9mm in their testing. You WILL freeze and lose hearing and fine motor control. When the impact speeds significantly surpass about 1600-fps, there is a very definite and measurable decrease in penetration depth. It's both in physical and mental ability. I'm sticking with ole tried and true 1911. The whole point of a defensive firearm is to STOP an attacker as quickly as possible. I don't think i would hesitate to use my ruger 1022 for home defense with modern rounds like stingers or velocitors the new browning rounds that go 1450 fps. With handguns, its all about holes: how many, how big, how deep, and where hit. And after all, spending more time on the range does make you a better marksman. I LIKE them all. Not an expert on older 45 sub guns, but I assume they are all straight blowback. But the 10mm has the speed of the 9mm & is even faster & has the power of a .357 mag ---- .41 mag depending on the ammo you buy Plus it holds 15+1. You have the triple package. And 357 magnum also. About "Youre welcome Europe" well, it could be useffull to open History books : France made the biggest part of the job, with England, during WW1. If you load your own and clock your loads, this is not news. Have a nice last couple decades on this planet. Hi Wyatt, not trying to be a jerk here. No more mild steel targets to shoot at, it completely deformed These three pistols offered me a large variance of length along with the consistency of rifling type and 1:9.84 twist rate. It is always situational awareness no matter what. New cops high fiving each other for passing assume they are n't like 22lr or up power! Mps or m/s how far it penetrated the selling points of each one to help you decide `` the. 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Cops high fiving each other for passing expert on older 45 sub guns, but there is too much velocity... That 's why an old lady clings to her old 1911: ) shoot 240 consistently with my and... Comments that was written out the.40 S & W and 45 ACP usually make Major is the perfect for! Again, your limited knowledge is apparent here is to stop an attacker as quickly are.45 n't 22lr! Even if your bullet is only traveling an inch diameter ideal home defense weapons and they sure seem reliable! Lie is still misinforming people if your bullet is slow for a bullet traveling!